i believe in the values of the democratic mayor. >> another debate next week in south carolina. i believe it will be even ti feistier. "all in" with chris hayes starts right now. tonight on "all in," breaking news that the president fired his top intelligence official because officials briefed democrats on russian efforts to get trump re-electre-elected. then -- >> they say he lied but other people lied, too. >> roger stone sentenced to prison, despite incredible pressure from the president. >> roger has a very good chance of exoneration in my opinion. >> plus, a bombshell claim by julian aassange.

>> and worrying numbers for democrats in wisconsin as millions watch the top candidates fight it out. >> this is not just a question of the mayor's character. this is also a question about electability. >> "all in" starts now. good evening and welcome from las vegas. i'm joy reid in for chris hayes. if you're the president of the united states and you learned that a foreign adversary was trying to manipulate the elections in your country, essentially to rig them toward the outcome they wanted, what would you do? if you found out they were trying to manipulate the election for you, would you take the help or resist it because you underthat your legitimacy depended on you winning election in your open right and not with for help? well, we're learning tonight that donald trump was so angry that his own intelligence

officials told lawmakers that russia is actively interferesin in 2020, to help him win reelection, he fired the man, the director of national nmg intelligence, joseph maguire. it was first reported by "the washington post" but then "the new york times" broke it wide opening report trump grew upset after intelligence officers warned house lawmakers tllast wk that russia was interfering with the 2020 call pain mpaign to tr president trump re-elected. trump was reportedly stewing that he thought schiff and other democrats would use the fact that russia was once again working to boost the trump campaign effort against him. the "daily beast" reported that it wasn't just trump, the republicans went nuts when they were told the russians were

working to help trump. a foreign power is meddling in our election and the response of trump and his allies isn't to try to stop it, it's to lash out and fire the messenger for telling. i want to be clear on what a big deal this is. back in 2004 congress created the position of director of national intelligence in the wake of 9/11 to serve is he head of the intelligence community. the dni is the principal adviser to the president on intelligence matters. he or she produces the top secret briefing given to the president every day, documenting the latest intel from all 17 of the nation's spy agencies. it's a really big job, and it's supposed to be apolitical. they work with lawmakers from both parties on issues like election security. sometimes they need to tell the president something he might not want to hear. its purpose was to literally prevent another unforeseen

disaster like the september 11th attacks. trump's first dni was dan coates but he fired him laws he issued intelligence assessments conf m confirming that russia did meddle in the election that made trump president. coates was replaced by joseph maguire and now maguire has been fired as well. and trump is now replacing him with a partisan hack, a guy with virtually no intelligence experience. his name is richard grenel, the form former spokesperson, who is currently ambassador to germany, a position he's planning to keep. as ambassador, he has attacked the german government and proclaimed he wants to, quote, empower other conservatives throughout europe, to reverse the, quote, failed policies of

the left. most importantly, he's downplayed russian interference in our elections writing such efforts have been around for decades. so what's the big deal? and there's one more aspect of grenel that must really please donald trump. he's a rare gold trump card member of the trump d.c. hotel. perfect. this is who will now be responsible for briefing congress and the president about the conclusions of our collective intelligence community. i'm joined now by national security reporter at the daily beast who has been reporting this story out. thank you for being here, erin. i want to ask you, first of all, regarding this meeting where the republican members got upset reportedly at hearing that russia is back at it again trying to help trump get re-elected, what -- do you have reporting on what were they upset about? were they upset about the fact that basically the intelligence

services were snitching on what russia was doing or were they upset they felt the way they were delivers the information could be used politically against donald trump? >> what we know speaking to several sources about this briefing is republican lawmakers, i think the correct word for it would be they were exasperated. they were confused about what intelligence was actually be put in front of them. they had a lot of questions about the credibility of that intelligence, about what exactly it said and how true it was that russia was interfering in the 2020 election in favor of president trump. what we know about this meeting so far is pretty vague and i think we all have to be kind of careful here. we don't know exactly what odni briefers told lawmakers about, there whether it was a campaign by the russians, whether it was something on social media or something further than that. but what we do know is national

security officials have for months and years even said it was a possibility that russia, you know, forces or sort of officials or malign actors would interfere in the 2020 election. we know this has been a possibility for some time but national security officials have said that that mostly in their eyes takes place on social media. so we don't know exactly what's going on here yet. >> and i realize -- i assume this was a classified briefing so we may not know exactly what was said but my question comes back to sort of a fundamental, this is the intelligence community, the gang of eight, these are people who presumably read the mueller report or at least their staff maybe read it. is the reporting here they doesn't believe that russia did it in 2016 and therefore they're annoyed at hearing mueller report-type information again? is that what the annoyance would be about? >> i think it's too soon to say, but i think putting this all in context for the republicans and

for trump himself, you know, they just got through the impeachment trial, first it was the mueller report and then it was the ukraine scandal and i this i having this information come up yet again in a different way is of course going to roughly some featheruffle some feathers. again the details are very vague but we do know republican lawmakers were worried about what the intelligence actually said, how credible it was and whether or not it was specifically saying whether russians were interfering in favor of trump. >> right, this is the house of intel committee, not the gang of eight. what are lawmakers telling you even on background about how they feel about mr. grenel getting this job for which he does not seem to be qualified? >> we've talked to several people about this, higher ranking intelligence officials, lawmakers and everyone seems to have the same answer.

gr grenel has very little or no experience in the intelligence field. he's alienated his counterparts in germany. we were told he's been shut out of almost every meeting he's had in germany, that people there don't really respect him or having much value for the work that he does and then having somebody like grenel come into the position he's coming into at odni it creates all sorts of concerns mostly because, as you said earlier, the director is supposed to be apolitical, this person is supposed to gather unbiased facts and is supposed to have relationships with foreign counterpart and sort of be able to communicate with them about intelligence matter and i think people are really concerned that grenel might not be able to carry out those kinds of duties as other past directors have. now, i should know that grenel will only be in place for a few

weeks. unless prem says he's goi-- pru he -- president trump says he's going to nominate something different. again, things could change in the next couple of weeks. >> erin banco, thank you very much. appreciate you being here. >> i want to bring in a member of the judiciary and foreign affairs committees let talk about mr. grenell, even if these only there for a few weeks as we just heard erin say he says he's going to be there, is it risky to have someone with that little respect afforded to him in a country where he's already ambassador and holding both jobs at the same time, what are the risks to you? >> there are a lot of risks. we rely on -- richard grenell is

basically an internet troll. he's a loyalist to the president, he's not qualified to hold this position even for a single day. now we're learning that mr. maguire was removed from the position likely in port in response to the briefing he provided to the intelligence committee and the president has installed someone loyal to him and we need somebody loyal to the country and loyal to the responsibilities of national intelligence, not someone who is going to be a sycophant to the president and be afraid to tell him what they've found. we have the most respected intelligence community in the world, the best men and women who are working incredibly hard to keep us safe and give accurate information about the threats and we need someone willing to stand up to the president and share information whether the president likes to hear it or not. i think it's very, very alarming

that richard grenell will be in this position, even an acting position, for a short period of time. >> it's like president trump is trying to break all of these institutional forces in washington, he wants just to be loyal to him and for that to be their principal duty. are you concerned that republicans don't have a resistance to that and they doesn't seem to be showing much resistance to the idea of a foreign country, foreign add ver sayy maybe trying to help keep donald trump in power? >> i would hope that every single american believes that the american people get to decide who will be our president. the citizens of this great country have that important responsibility and no foreign power has the right to interfere in that in any way. and when this first happened in 2016 and there was a systemic and sweeping interference by the russians, what a president should have done is said this will never happen again in the united states of america and put together an interagency effort to make sure that we made it clear that the russians would

pay a price for that interference and that we had taken every step possible to prevent them from ever doing it again. instead what the pred did from the very moment this was revealed is he diminished it, called it a hoax, prevented his members of administration from participating in the investigation of it, he undermined and attacked the intelligence community, who sided with vladimir putin in helsinki, he repeated the russian propaganda that it was really ukraine. the message to the world has been the president of the united states will not take these threats seriously and it the responsibility of the congress, republicans and democrats, to stand up as americans and say we will not allow any foreign power to meddle or interfere or undermine our elections. we fight for free and fair elections around the globe and promote democracy. this is about protecting free and fair elections in our own country so the american people ultimately get to decide who their leader is, not some foreign power. i'm very concerned my republican kol eelgs failed to healed the

president accountable for his inviting the ukrainians to involve themselves and cheat in the 2020 election and now it appears if this reporting is true that he became enraged when he learned that the intelligence community shared with the members of congress the current state of affairs. this is very disturbing. >> you did answer the question i was going to ask you. congressman, thank you very much for your time tonight. >> now we turn to a national security correspondent at politico and author clint watts. it's one thing for donald trump to have his own psychological reasons for not wanting to accept he was assisted by a foreign adversary to get elected. it's the next level for him to get enraged when he's told through the intelligence community that it may be happening again or that when congress is told that. i am concerned that republicans are not showing resistance to donald trump's way of thinking

here, for the republicans in that house intel committee to get angry at the intelligence community rather than be enraged russia is trying the same game again. what is it that to you? >> we have intelligence agencies that we spend billions of dollars on to only tell politician what is they want to hear. that doesn't make any sense. it to inform the legislature or the executive branch, the president, give them the best information they can so they make decisions about protecting the national security of americans. that's the whole reason for them. they're trying to give them an honest assessment that's not going to be politicized, let them know what's coming into the election because, by the way, we've been embroiled in scandals and debates and conflict in our country for the last four years because russia interfered in our

last election so who you do we mitigate this so it doesn't happen again? we didn't build a strategy after russia interfered in the last election, so now the intel community is saying this is what our assessment is. just from reading russian state sponsored propaganda that russia wants president trump probably to be re-elected against. that's not some big classified reassessment. it's openly available. now there's probably additional evidence in that assessment. i'm sure maguire when he went in was prepared for this. at the same time, what do we want our government servants to do. what we just given is russia another victory as of tonight. we are talking about this again right now. the president is creating reactions, moving people, dismantling the dni, moving people around, bringing an ambassador to be in part time. that shuts down our entire government defense for the election and that's what we should be focused on right now

money. >> well, natasha, there are two reasons he would do that, either he cannot accept the idea that foreign help is there or he encourages it and wants it. i don't know which of those it is but i'm wondering if there's any reporting that backs up which of those two it is and whether republicans want it as well. >> so we don't have the reporting that suggests that the president has told aides for example that he really wants russia to interfere because he thinks it going to help him, right? so far what we've heard is he gets enraged because he thinks it questions the legitimacy of his election in 2016 and potential reelection in 2020. i this i what a lot of former national security and intel experts are telling us is that they're concerned that the intel community now is self-sensoring, that they're going into these briefings with congress and intel officials are actually holding back on the real threats that are posed by russia with regard to helping trump win reelection this year. "the new york times" reported that some intel officials were irked by the fact that shell be

pierson, election security expert, was tell being members of congress the truth about this. that is what disturbed a lot of former intel officials i spoke to the most, this idea that not only that the president is purging people at the director of national intelligence and replacing them with loyalist, we're reporting cashe patel, is now being placed atop odni to serve as a seepier adviser to rick grenell but the senior officials already in place are holding back information because they fear a political backlash from the president. the worldwide threats hearing that is a tradition every year public by the intel officials to tell the public what the biggest national security threats to this country are, that has been cancelled because the intel leaders of this country are afraid of backlash from this president and that's a really bad precedent to set, these former experts and former

officials tell me because it will ultimately make it so the intel community does not feel comfortable telling the president things he does not want to hear. >> the effect of it then be clint, if donald trump actually wanted it. if people are afraid to tell the preds that a foreign adversary is coming at the election again, if people are holding back and doing their jobs less aggressively, then we wind up with a situation where this country is open to having ielts election manipulated again. how safe do you feel the next election is because of this? >> it's just remarkable. russia couldn't ask for anything better. their ultimate goal is toe road confidence in the election system, elected officials. we've had non-stop rotation of officials, justice department, state department, just rolling over. we have been essentially moved

under, subverted just by this little pinprick of a ai tack. when you look at how to defend the election, we can try to defaend voting machines, databases, cyber defenses but a lot of this is about manipulation. and if we don't understand what other countries, not just russia, there are other countries trying to influence our election as well, if we don't understand what they're saying about the actual candidate, how can we possibly defend against it? it's flying blind in terms of election defense. we're handicapping our elected officials, our institutions, all the resources taxpayers pay. how are we going to use them if we don't even know what to look for? >> it's very difficult to get people to defend against something that it's in their interest not to defend. thank you beau very much. next, another trump ally is headed to prison as roger stone was convicted of covering up for the president. the remarkable scene in the

courtroom today in just two minutes. [ distant band playing ] have you ever wondered what the motorcade driver drives when they're not in a motorcade? [ upbeat music starts ] [ engine revving ] ♪ this one drives a volkswagen passat. ♪

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as we learn more about donald trump's attempts to hide russia's interference in the upcoming elections on his behalf, we're seeing more repercussions from the last time. judge amy berman jackson sentenced roger stone to more than three years in prison for a number of crimes, including lying to congress, obstruction of injuries and witness tampering all to cover up for the trump's campaign courting of russian campaign help during the 2016 election. stone was convicted in november of lying to the house intelligence committee about his attempts to contact wikileaks and of pressuring another person to lie as well. judge jackson specifically pointed out the crimes stone committed with were to help donald trump period. stone knew some would view it as incriminating for him and the

campaign if he asserted his right to testify and said nothing so he lied inestestead. he was prosecuted for covering up for the president. joining me now for moe are on today's sentencing and whether a presidential pardon is on the verizon, the executive director of the nonprofit organization protect democracy and dalia litwig. >> it feels like president trump is telegraphing it with some of his other pardons, how likely would you anticipate it is and what would be the ramifications if he did it? >> he clearly signalled he's thinking about it today. i this i we need to put this in context if he does it. for the last year there are data on record, the federal government prosecuted 165,000 people around this country. how many of those people has donald trump looked at and considered whether their

sentence is too harsh? how many of those cases did william barr personally look at? the answer is they're looking at just the friend of the president and creating a system in this country where if you're a friend of the president, you get special treatment. not only is that fundamentally at odds with foundation of american principles and rule of law, but here's another thing donald trump and roger stone can keep in mind. if it's shown that donald trump offered this pardon to keep stone quiet, there are criminal statutes that speak to that, statutes like obstruction of justice. this pardon may be coming but the saga may not be over. >> let play donald trump himself, talking about his old pal roger stone today. >> before we go any further, i want to address today's sentencing of a man roger stone, roger stone. he's become a big part of the news over the last little while and i'm following this very closely and i want to see it

play out to its fullest because roger has a very good chance of exoneration in my opinion. >> dalia, that sounds like a preview to a pardon. one might call it a bit of a banana republic situation, where just being friends with the president, just being his ally, just covering for him is how you get sort of enhanced justice on your behalf. it feels like that is true of this and the recent pardons he's given. your thoughts? >> yeah, i think i completely agree with what ian says, this cuts get basic notions of what rule of law means, equal justice unthe law carved into the supreme court. we're supposed to believe that everyone gets treated the same and if the president is saying he's doing special favors for people who did special favors for him, that's unbelievably problematic. the or thing, jother thing, joy happened this week that we can't look away is he is telling us he's the chief law enforcement

officer of the united states. he is saying he actually is bill barr's boss and that so far he's happy with what barr has done but he's keeping an eye out and saying i have the power to get involved in this, i choose not to but i certainly have the power to second guess everybody player in this system. that's kind of chilling. it frankly terrifying that he is telling us that he is restraining himself from jumping in here but at any point he could jump in and do a favor for his old pal roger stone. that's anathema to anybody who believes in the rule of law. >> let me show you donald trump's allies so far and their sentences. paul manafort was sentenced to 7 1/2 years in prison goes all the way down to 40 months for stone, 3 years nor michael

cohen, mr. papadopoulos 40 days. if the sentence seem relatively light, in this case far less than the 7 to 9 years, on the other hand i wonder if any average black or brown kid sentenced as a non-violent drug offender could get even a seven and a half year sentence? that leniency is for the rich and well connected. >> the criminal defense bar across the country i imagine are going to be filing motions in just those cases of young people swept up in the criminal justice system and asking the court to ask d.o.j. is the barr sentencing recommendation for a sentence that is far less than

the sentencing guidelines that barr personally authorized in the roger stone case, is that department-wide policy? is there a new leniency policy in the department of justice? i hope that the answer to that is yes, for two reasons. one, we should have more lenient sentences in this country, and second it would mean that at least the stone memo represents equal justice for all. but if those d.o.j. lawyers answer no, it not department policy, it really calls the problem here, which is special treatment for friends of the president, harsh law for everyone else. >> dalia, william bar is at the center of this. he's not the check on the president, he's the enabler. >> remember, we heard rumors at the againing of the week that barr was thinking of quitting if donald trump couldn't stop tweeting and couldn't stop interp lating whatever his moods and whims were into the criminal process and yet barr hasn't

quit. so he sort of threw down the gauntlet. he said the president is making it impossible for me to do my job, yet nevertheless he insists, he's doing his job. apparently the president has won this standoff, and it does raise real questions if barr has told us, i cannot do my job, judge jackson today was very clear in the sentencing, about how she was trying to be neutral and cabin the political issues from jujs issues but how can she do that if bill barr is saying i can't control the president, it's out of my hands, best of luck. >> very quickly, we're out of time. >> one note of optimism is bar was chastened by the fact that so many dni alumni spoke out. activism does work and we need to see more from our civil society. >> we will hope and play. coming up, julian assange says

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. this week donald trump pardoned or commuted the sentences of 11 criminals. one other potential pardon which hasn't happened yet but trump seems to be telegraphing is his long-time friend and ally roger stone who was sentenced today to just over three years in prison. stone held himself out to the trump campaign as the connection to wikileaks in the run-up to

the 2016 election and wikileaks is the outfit that published the emails that russians sold from the democratic national committeeand yesterday we got news about another potential pardon, this one for wikileaks starter julian assange, the pardon offer reportedly game from former republican congressman dana rorbacher. >> if julian assange exposes

that, i believe that deserves a pardon. >> what is he asking for? >> that's a confidential interaction with myself and the white house to determine what can be offered. >> well, back then he might have been deliberately vague but now the former congressman has told yahoo news's michael isikoff exactly what he was offering julian assange. and he joins me next. n! oh, thanks! you know automated lights are just the beginning. pretty soon they're gonna have eyes... everywhere. well goodnight. geico. over 75 years of savings and service.

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in a british courtroom this week a lawyer for julian assange made a shocking claim that dana rohrabacher dangled a pardon. and today rohrabacher confirmed that story telling michael isikoff that he did offer a trump pardon to assange. michael isikoff joins me now. let's go through what the offer was. michael, specifically is what dana rohrabacher told you that donald trump sent him to offer a pardon in exchange for this information about russia to clear russia of the dnc hack? >> no, he did not say that. what he said is he went to london to meet with assange along with this sort of alt-right provocateur johnson

who helped arrange the meeting in hopes of getting assange to turn over evidence that would prove the russians didn't do the 2016 election hack. and he said if assange did that, then he would arrange for trump to give him a pardon. he said assange knew he could get to trump and rohrabacher did say he did call after this meeting and had a conversation, discussed this with then white house chief of staff john kelly. but he also made clear that there was no follow-up. kelly was -- kelly understood what a -- how politically problematic it would be for the president to do this. so it didn't go further than that. but it is interesting that rohrabacher went down this road. this is of a piece with all the

testimony you heard during the impeachment hearings about conspiracy theories, about aserve ease a server and ukrainian intervention, all to threaten the idea that the russians engaged on a system at atic att on the 2016 elections. >> what did he think his authority was to be able to say that? >> well, his authority was sort of his self-authority. he took it upon himself to do this. but the most interesting thing about this, joy, is what rohrabacher told me his real goal was here. yes, to knock down the idea that the russians had hacked the election, but he wanted proof that the real source for those

dnc emails was not the russians but seth rich, the slain dnc staffer who was murdered on the streets of washington in july 2016, and that's really the err conspiracy theory that grew out of the 2016 election, this young man who worked for the dnc, it was all his doing. there's of course absolutely no evidence for this, it been dismissed by the fbi, the washington police department, everybody who has looked at the case, but what we discovered when we did a series on the seth rich conspiracy theories last summer, conspiracyla land, it w really a planned by russian intelligence to begin with. within days after rich was killed on the streets of washington, russian intelligence agencies were -- agents were floating the idea, circulating the idea that seth rich was

behind it and then the internet research agency, the troll farm in st. petersburg was amplifying it, tweeting constantly through these fake bots and trolls that they had and soon it migrated from there through social media to alt-right sides like breitbart and others and ultimately fox news itself. >> the weird ways in which russian intelligence has been able to dig in and sort of manipulate republican figures right up to donald trump and this guy, mr. rohrabacher is really incredible. it really wild. michael isikoff, thank you very much. really appreciate you being here tonight. >> coming up being last night's democratic debate was a record breaking in more ways than one. the big numbers coming out of nevada just ahead. you'll work wr on a flexible wealth plan. and with new brokerage accounts, your cash is automatically invested at a rate that's at least 20 times more than other advisory firms. personalized advice.

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we are not going to beat donald trump with a man who has who knows how many nondisclosure agreements and the drip, drip, drip of stories of women saying they have been harassed and discriminated against. [ cheers and applause ] that's not what we do as democrats. >> nearly 20 million people tuned in last night. the most ever to watch a democratic debate. and according to her campaign, elizabeth warren's strong performance inspired her best fundraising day yet. she hauled in more than $5 million from her supporters and even inspired online memes over how that he came off the top rope and her competitors, particularly michael bloomberg. he just released his fundraising numbers and since launching his candidacy in late november, he has pumped a staggering $464 million of his own money into his campaign.

bloomberg has spent approximately $82 every second just in the month of january. let's talk about the state of the race. right now i'm joined by a former senator, and an msnbc political analyst, and medhi hasan, columnist for "the intercept." thank you all for being here. i want to start with you, senator, first. can you explain just as somebody who's been in political races yourselves, what is the relative value of money itself versus something like the horrible debate performance that bloomberg had? does the money wind up overwhelming how poorly he did? >> well, he has to do better because people are going to judge you on your debate performance to some degree but also by the message that you put out there with paid media and free media. but i think what michael bloomberg did, and it was really interesting is he really woke up elizabeth warren, and he woke up

joe biden who was very nervous. and i think the two of them really had better performances than they have in a long time. >> well, but let's talk about elizabeth warren for just a second though because i feel like moments can sometimes make your future in the sense that if you go back and look at amy klobuchar's moment she had new hampshire, it wound up boosting her probably higher than she'd be at the end. you have elizabeth warren going after every single one of her other competitors and really beating up on bloomberg while other people are already voting. to just go through it right now, california is already voting. i believe early voting is already taking place in colorado, north carolina, and some other states. there is the map of people who are actually already able -- that's super tuesday. but there are some people who are already voting for super tuesday. is it possible that warren had such a big moment that falast n

that she winds up changing her future? >> sure. i think people who are warren supporters have been waiting for her to catch on like this for some time. i think that there is the kind of blood sport aspect of it when people have the memes of her with ether, the famous track of jay-z playing in the background. i think that is not quantifiable by any significant metric. but it is significant for people who are going to be donating and giving money to her campaign that gives her a kind of boost. i will go back to one thing though about the earlier question about michael bloomberg. i think the thing that has to be kept in mind, and, you know, that incredible opening line that elizabeth warren had about not being able to beat republicans with a candidate who had all of those kinds of liabilities. but if we think back to where the republicans were in 2016, trump was not their first choice, but it became apparent that they would have to swallow

all these other kinds of things, all these other huge liabilities in order to get the thing they wanted more than anything else, which was to prevent hillary clinton from occupying the white house. so the question is really do democrats feel about donald trump in 2016 the way republicans felt about hillary in 2020 the way republicans felt about hillary clinton in 2016? >> yeah. that is a very good question to bring to you, mehdi. because the fear that i've been hearing across almost every democrat that i've spoken with is, number one, we're going to wind up with a contested convention where no one goes in. david talked about this on air with us last night that nobody goes in with enough delegates to actually clinch the nomination but that senator sanders goes in with the most. and then the question becomes because their other huge fear is that bernie sanders ends up as the nominee and that makes it very difficult to win the senate, may even lose the house.

that's the fear that people have about him as the nominee. what would happen in your view if we go into a -- some people do feel that way. what if we go into a contested convention, what would be the outcome if that winds up with somebody other than senator sanders being the nominee? what do you think would happen? >> i think whatever your view of bernie sanders, let's be clear. elizabeth warren won the debate and she was put on earth to destroy michael bloomberg. but bernie sanders won the debate in his own way in the sense that no one really laid a finger on him. he's the frontrunner, not michael bloomberg. nobody did anything to stop him from being a frontrunner. he was the frontrunner yesterday, he is the frontrunner today. he's got a 35% chance of getting to the convention. no one else comes close to having that chance. his whole strategy is to go to a second ballot at the convention to beat bernie it. >> would be a disaster for democrats if they have this chaos at the convention in milwaukee. the last time we had a broken

convention, 1952, the democrats picked adley stephenson. bernie people will rightly or wrongly say our candidate had the nomination stolen from him on primetime television. they're already [ bleep ] about 2016. i just think with the most delegates and michael bloomberg somehow ends up as a candidate because of some back-room dealing and throwing his financial weight around, that's a disaster for the democrats. and donald trump will be laughing all the way to re-election. >> can i add one thing to that really quickly? >> sure. >> and i'd like to, too. >> one thing to keep in mind about that as well is that this cuts both ways. it doesn't even have to be a broken convention. when you have disunity at your convention, period, this is 1924, this is 1952, the republicans in 1976. 1980 with the democrats again. you really do not want people leaving from a convention with ill will and bad feeling like that. it almost guarantees that you

will lose the general election. >> senator. >> yes. i think this is a year like no other. and i think your guests are very well versed on what could happen. but i don't think we can really predict it. what we've got in the democratic primary is two lanes. i call them all progressive. some are pragmatic. but bernie really is the idealog in the race. and i think it's a really big problem for us. so we have to see what happens. i wondered why he stopped attacking millionaires. he used to attack millionaires. now it turns out he's a multi-millionaire. so i guess he still likes himself. but he goes after people he's very angry. and so i think we have to do -- >> oh, come on -- >> what's right for the country. >> there's a lot to be angry about. senator warren was angry too. >> you don't have to be angry at someone because they're successful.

that's ridiculous. >> i think we're seeing some of the -- yep. i think we're out of time. but i think we're seeing the debate. listen, keep your eyes on warren though. she's not done yet. thank you all for joining us tonight. that is "all in" for this evening from las vegas. the "rachel maddow show" starts now. >> mom and daddy are just having a discussion. sometimes adults need to do that. >> can you record that so that i can listen it every morning and soothe myself? [ laughter ] >> yes. i will make it as a voicemail for you. it can be my ring tone, darling. >> thank you very much. >> thank you, joy. thanks for joining us at home. wow, what a day it has been. today, tonight really, we have learned that just one week ago the top intelligence official in the u.s. government working on protecting our elections from foreign interference, that official